Full or Partial Removal? Engineered or Non-Engineered? What is best for YOU?

   So, you have finally decided to take the plunge and dive-in head first into your swimming pool removal.   Suddenly, you are faced with a whole new set of questions.  How will your pool removal be handled?  Most cities allow a partial collapse and fill, where others require a full removal of all concrete and rebar and then backfilled under the supervision of a licensed Geotechnical soils engineer.  There are many options that fall between these two ends of the spectrum and I will do my best to describe each techniques and the pros and cons of each.

The Partial Removal and Non-Engineered Fill (Sides Broken down)
    The process:
    This is the most common type of removal that we see.  This technique involves punching holes in the bottom of the swimming pool, breaking the sides (bond beam) down 18"-36" from grade and then backfilling and compacting with no engineering oversight.
     Suitable future use:
    Most cities will consider the area of the former pool non-buildable (no additions or dwellings) but the area will be perfectly acceptable for landscaping, sheds, concrete, plants or trees.
     Advantages:
    The main advantage to this type of pool removal is cost savings and the speed at which it can be removed (2-5 days)
     Disadvantages:
    There are a few disadvantages to this technique.  The main disadvantage is that it will be something you will have to disclose to future buyers of the property and could affect the value of your home becasue it is considered non-buildable.  On the other hand, you should check with the city building depatment and see what the property setbacks are to see whether it is a buildable area in the first place.
    Another disadvantage is that if someday someone wanted to install a new swimming pool the old one would have to be dug up, broken out, recompacted and re-dug to the shape of the new pool.
    Also, if this technique is performed incorrectly you may have an increased chance of sinkage, swelling, or a lack of proper seepage. Refer to How to hire a contractor blog to make sure your contractor measures up.

Partial Removal and Engineered Fill
      The Process:    
      This technique is the same as above except that the backfill would be monitored by an engineer technician who would perform density testing during backfill and then submit a senior engineer letter.  This technique is typically only used when required by the city but if you are unsure of your contractors abilities it might be a good idea.
      Suitable future use:
     Most cities will consider the area of the former pool non-buildable (no additions or dwellings) but the area will be perfectly acceptable for landscaping, sheds, concrete, plants or trees.
      Advantages:
      The advantages to this type of pool removal is cost savings and the speed at which it can be removed (4-5 days).  Another advantage would be that you have verification that the area has been properly compacted.
       Disadvantages:

      There are a few disadvantages to this technique.  The main disadvantage is that it will be something you will have to disclose to future buyers of the property and could affect the value of your home becasue it is considered non-buildable.  On the other hand, you should check with the city building depatment and see what the property setbacks are to see whether it is a buildable area in the first place.

    Another disadvantage is that if someday someone wanted to install a new swimming pool the old one would have to be dug up, broken out, recompacted and re-dug to the shape of the new pool.

Full Removal with Non-Engineered backfill

       The Process:

       All concrete (Gunnite), fiberglass, liner, re-bar, etc. is removed from pool cavity and hauled off-site. The area is filled and compacted.

       Suitable future use:

      Most cities will consider the area of the former pool non-buildable (no additions or dwellings) but the area will be perfectly acceptable for landscaping, sheds, concrete, plants, trees or new swimming pool.

       Advantages:

      When you sell your home your disclosure will state that the entire pool was removed which may have less impact than if you had performed a partial removal.  If your property setbacks would not allow building in the area regardless of the former pool there should be little or no impact on home value.  Another advantage of removing the entire pool is that with no concrete burried in the pool it leaves less room for error in the backfill process.  If a contractor doesn't know how to properly layer the concrete chunks during backfill it can leave air spaces that over time can cause sinkage in the former pool area.  This process also eliminates any concerns of seepage as with the partial removal.  In my opinion, if you are going to go through the expense and effort of a full removal it is usually worth it the spend the extra money to have it engineered. The cost is typically about 10% more.

Full Removal with Engineered Backfill
       The Process:
       All concrete (Gunnite), fiberglass, liner, re-bar, etc. is removed from pool cavity and hauled off-site. The area is filled and compacted.  Provide a demolition and compaction plan wet stamped by a state licensed Engineer, perform density testing and oversight during backfill, and submit a final engineer review declaring the area "buildable"
        Advantages:
      Although this is the most expensive option, it is the absolute best process.  In the eyes of real estate and building departments it is as if the pool never existed.
        Disadvantage:
        Cost

     This should give you an overall idea of your options. Keep in mind that there are some variations in between these that may fit your special situation.  I tried to simplify "the process" just to give you an idea of what would be done in each scenario but I would be happy to talk to you in more depth about our specialized process for removing swimming pools.  I hope you find this helpful and I wish you the best on your upcoming project!

Ryan Crownholm
925-933-4448
http://www.ihatemyswimmingpool.com/

Factors that affect pool removal cost.

A swimming pool is a swimming pool right? Why the fluctuation in price? In fact, the end result is the same but the process varies depending upon several factors. Below is a list of a few of the most important factors influencing the price of removing your swimming pool.
1. Access: Typically the bigger equipment and trucks that can access your pool the better the price for your swimming pool removal. The absolute best case scenario is to have access such that a large dump truck can backed right up to your pool to dump the fill material right in. This is rarely the case and swimming pools can be removed with much tighter access.
2. Permit: Different cities have different fees for a swimming pool removal permit. The price typically ranges from $150-$1,600. Some of the higher priced permits include refundable recycling deposits that will be returned upon proof of recycling.
3. Size of swimming pool: Larger pools typically require more demolition and more fill material and therefore increase the cost of removal. An average pool contains 25,000 gallons and we have removed swimming pools ranging from 5,000 gallons to 100,000 gallons.
4. Type of Swimming Pool Construction: Liner, above ground, in gound gunnite, concrete etc. These are a few of the different types of swimming pools and each requires different techniques for demolition.
5. Full, Partial, Engineered: These are the different types of swimming pool demolition. Depending on what your plans are for the site of your old swimming pool will influence which technique will suit you best.

These are only five of the major factors influencing your swimming pool removal cost and are very important to keep in mind when you are getting bids for the removal. If your favorite bush stands in the way of your access to your pool you may want to consider the cost of removal and replacement as opposed to the additional cost of your pool removal.

For a free, no obligation estimate please call me anytime:
925-933-4448
Ryan Crownholm
www.diganddemo.com

Why Do I Need a Permit for my Pool Removal?

Clients often ask me why we require that all pools be permitted with the city and/or county. 

My typical answer is "Why not".  That answer usually doesn't get me very far so I figured I would elaborate.

1. Permit Costs are usually only a fraction of the cost of the job.  They typically are over the counter permits that require a simple plot plan, job plan, description etc.  An average permit only takes 3-4 hours of work for an experienced pool removal contractor.

2. Property value.  If there is a discrepency of County records (ie. records say pool but there is not) the potential buyer may see this as a liability.  The cost of permitting the work, if required, would be a concern.

3. Tax benefits.  I have been told by clients that they have petitioned the county to lower their taxes based on the reduced "value" of their home without a pool.  I have not verified the validity of this so check for yourself.
4.  Having another set of eyes "AKA Building Inspector" visit your jobsite verifies that the pool removal process is  done to the satisfaction of local requirements and keeps your contractor on track as well.
5.  The cost of going back and permitting and unpermitted pool will far exceed the oringinal cost.

6.  Most cities will require a plot plan for the permit which will show the location of the former pool.  This will be very important if you ever decide to build near or over the site.

7.  Neighbors! If anything will invoke the inner tattle tale of your friendly neighbors it will be the jackhammering, trucks, equipment, etc. used to accomplish your job.  There is nothing worse than trying to obtain a permit after recieving a stop order from an angry building inspector.

The only advantage to not obtaining a permit is to save $100-$500 in permit cost .  In terms of  Risk / Reward I feel there is no question here. Hence my "Why not" statement.

 If your contractor tries to talk you out of getting a permit or tells you to take care of the permit I would suggest finding another contractor.  An experienced pool removal contractor can handle everything for you in far less time than if you do it yourself. 

Ryan Crownholm
Owner
Dig & Demo

http://www.ihatemyswimmingpool.com/